Mame crt perfection (close to)

[Invité trouby]

Forget all this new mame shit it still looks like shit

i have the best mame crt look because i use the older mame version that is just before the change of diabolical controlled crt rubbish 'fixes' and heres the proof  

 

Modifié le 22 mai 2020 par trouby

[Houb]

Tu peux faire un screenshot en FullHD? (On voit rien sur tes videos, Youtube massacre trop la qualité pour qu'on puisse réellement évaluer le réel rendu)

Quelle version de MAME? (tu ne le dis pas) Et quels réglages? (tu ne les donnes pas non plus)

 

 

 

 

[Invité trouby]

On 22/05/2020 at 11:49 PM, Houb said:

Can you make a screenshot in FullHD? (We don't see anything on your videos, Youtube massages the quality too much for us to really assess the actual rendering)

Which version of MAME? (you don't say that) And what settings? (you don't give them either)

 

 

 

 

what the fuk are u talking about?  look at the ninja turtles game. the name of the video is called  Mameui64 0.171 - HLSL setup then....i guess u dont see the comments section? and also i show on the video

 

[ducon2016]

29 minutes ago, trouby said:

what the fuk are u talking about?  look at the ninja turtles game. the name of the video is called  Mameui64 0.171 - HLSL setup then....i guess u dont see the comments section? and also i show on the video

 

Dude trouduc, what is wrong with you? Be polite please. Look if your setup makes you happy then great, but looking at your videos it does not look at all like my old CRT screens. If you want a more nostalgic look check out Houb shaders instead.

Modifié le 24 mai 2020 par ducon2016

[Invité trouby]

1 hour ago, ducon2016 said:

 

Dude trouduc, what is wrong with you? Be polite please. Look if your setup makes you happy then great, but looking at your videos it does not look at all like my old CRT screens. If you want a more nostalgic look check out Houb shaders instead.

that is exactly what i dont want now i know wtf would i make the heading as such if i thought his crt shaders were any good?  what im doing is giving a much better alternative to his rubbish.

i know what im talking about as i grewup in the arcades. i know how they should look. and houbs shaders are crap. but of course u dont have to. im only saying what i think

[Invité trouby]

his 'shaders' dont look anything like the real arcades/  mine do.  now u can use the bezels if u want. but yes of course what happens if u use them u dont get the curve. i can use both with or without and they are much closer to the real thing not his.

[Houb]

??

I missed something...

What's wrong with you? I just asked 2 missing informations on your post and a screenshot to show the real result because I don't have a 4k screen and on youtube in 1080p it's not accurate because of youtube's video compression.

I didn't made any review of your settings so far.... but what I read on your previous post looks like personal attacks... I hope I'm wrong...

 

[ducon2016]

10 hours ago, trouby said:

his 'shaders' dont look anything like the real arcades/  mine do.  now u can use the bezels if u want. but yes of course what happens if u use them u dont get the curve. i can use both with or without and they are much closer to the real thing not his.

 

You have two scanlines per pixel in Joe and Mac returns!!! Pretty sure no arcade ever had this happen, again glad your settings makes you happy. But I seriously recommend looking at other settings, Houb's work is based on CRTGeom which is a MAME and Retroarch state of the art shader, and then we made major improvements on top of that so claiming your scanline settings from mame 171 is superior and claiming

10 hours ago, trouby said:

and houbs shaders are crap

is kind of funny, basically you are saying mame shaders and retroarch shaders are bad :D I guess you did not know where those shaders came from.

 

Anyways let's have a civilized conversation, and if you want to convince people, post CLEAR screenshots like Houb does so that we can compare. Also you seem to miss the point that Houb's work applies to everything, not just Mame. Houb's shaders can be used with most PC games, other emulators than mame. How is your solution helping with Gigawings Generation for example? Houb's does. How is your solution helping for Kamui? Houb's does. How is your solution helping for Yatagarasu? Houb's does. I can make a very long list.

 

Again, enjoy your shader, but just be polite please.

Modifié le 24 mai 2020 par ducon2016

[ducon2016]

For reference here is wonder boy cabinet:

Your bezel does not look at all like the original.

[Invité trouby]

5 hours ago, ducon2016 said:

For reference here is wonder boy cabinet:

Your bezel does not look at all like the original.

hmm it depends on the location. i have the jap ones i think.  also how would u know how many scanlines i have on the mame?( also thats beside the point , its how it looks.

[Invité trouby]

15 hours ago, Houb said:

??

I missed something...

What's wrong with you? I just asked 2 missing informations on your post and a screenshot to show the real result because I don't have a 4k screen and on youtube in 1080p it's not accurate because of youtube's video compression.

I didn't made any review of your settings so far.... but what I read on your previous post looks like personal attacks... I hope I'm wrong...

 

personal? wow talk about weak piping time we live in  powder puff

[ducon2016]

6 hours ago, trouby said:

hmm it depends on the location. i have the jap ones i think.  also how would u know how many scanlines i have on the mame?( also thats beside the point , its how it looks.

 

Dude, do I really have to google things for you? Here is a capture from the original JAMMA on a CRT. At the bottom of this article: https://mameart.wordpress.com/2016/07/20/wonderboy-sega-1986/

 

Again, no offense but as you can see, there is only ONE scanline per pixel, which is not at all wht you have on your videos. Check the E and R in the screenshot below, can you see there is ONE pixel bar in the middle of the letter, and only ONE scanline above and below, but not one in the middle? Now check your video you should see what is wrong. Mame CRT shaders do it well, and because Houb's shaders are based on those, they also display this correctly.

 

[Invité trouby]

but thats mame cabinets. im talking real arcades m8 not based on something that is made up , the picture here is also wrong. this is just your formula. im talking about the real thing. 

[jawah]

It's like comparing apples and peers ... it has no point comparing a real crt with shaders made for lcd screens ..  and it has certainly no point at all saying it's junk, be thankfull for those people who are spending time creating free stuff for others.

 

What's really confusing you talking about a crt look (i too understanded you use a lcd, led screen)... say direct you use a real crt .... 

Modifié le 25 mai 2020 par jawah

[Dante82]

So I'd just thought I'd chime in here, ONLY because I follow a loooong thread at Libretro about CRT shaders and the subject of scanline to pixel ratio has come up here. 

 

(https://www.reddit.com/r/emulation/comments/42iq96/snes9x_scanlines_shader_make_the_picture_too_dark/ 1)

 

They are saying that correct scanline ratio is 2:1. This is for consumer TV's though, I'm not sure if this applies to arcade CRT monitors too. Problem is if this IS true, it is going to dim the image significantly.

 

Here is the libretro thread for some recent pics too of the 2:1 scanline ratio on a Sony Wega CRT and a Samsung Plasma TV. 

 

https://forums.libretro.com/t/please-show-off-what-crt-shaders-can-do/19193/1809

Modifié le 25 mai 2020 par Dante82

[Houb]

@Dante82

yes some resluts in you link (liberto forum) are really amazing.

 

@Trouby

Ok that's enough, I will play also!

 

So this how looks your awesome settings in 4K on Youtube :

 

This how looks CRT-Geom MOD Deluxe in 4K

 

Yours is so awesome guy!! it makes me dream so much!! Please teach me how you managed to get a so nice result??

 

PS: for sure none of them looks like a real CRT screen,... but your one is so close!! when i watched your videos i really thought my screen turned into a real CRT screen!! 

 

And also your setting is so amazing that we have more scanlines than pixels :

I remember, many real arcade monitors were doing such scanlines in the middle of the pixels (my grandmother did had a monitor like that!). So close to the perfection !!

Modifié le 25 mai 2020 par Houb

[ducon2016]

9 hours ago, trouby said:

but thats mame cabinets. im talking real arcades m8 not based on something that is made up , the picture here is also wrong. this is just your formula. im talking about the real thing. 

 

No. Read the text. JAMMA on real CRT.

[ducon2016]

5 hours ago, Dante82 said:

So I'd just thought I'd chime in here, ONLY because I follow a loooong thread at Libretro about CRT shaders and the subject of scanline to pixel ratio has come up here. 

 

(https://www.reddit.com/r/emulation/comments/42iq96/snes9x_scanlines_shader_make_the_picture_too_dark/ 1)

 

They are saying that correct scanline ratio is 2:1. This is for consumer TV's though, I'm not sure if this applies to arcade CRT monitors too. Problem is if this IS true, it is going to dim the image significantly.

 

Here is the libretro thread for some recent pics too of the 2:1 scanline ratio on a Sony Wega CRT and a Samsung Plasma TV. 

 

https://forums.libretro.com/t/please-show-off-what-crt-shaders-can-do/19193/1809

 

From your thread: "The best simulation is usually 2:1 regular lines to scan lines", this is reverted. They advocate more image than scanlines! :D But anyways this is a wrong solution to the brightness problem, the right way to solve it is to have bright pixels "glow" and expand over the black scanlines lightly, which is what we have in Houb's shader.

[ducon2016]

7 hours ago, Houb said:

 

I remember, many real arcade monitors were doing such scanlines in the middle of the pixels (my grandmother did had a monitor like that!). So close to the perfection !!

 

Lol. Your grand mom had a VGA monitor like mine

 

What trouby uses looks like a VGA CRT setting.

 

 

For reference here is my first CRT screen

 

 

And here is my second CRT screen

 

 

Modifié le 25 mai 2020 par ducon2016

[Invité trouby]

its better than before. the bottom picture looks good. but still i dont need to use the geom when my picture is on a 4k monitor and looking like arcade, i havnt seen a better setup than mine. vga? no i use an asus PG27UQ a great 4k HDR monitor. 

 

Modifié le 26 mai 2020 par trouby

[Invité trouby]

yeah the reason why those stupid scanlines makes it look dark on snes9 is cos the real crt has huge light focus on one area . when you use fake scanlines like u thats why its dark and stupid. the 'scanlines' are just the gaps between the picture. its just what we were used to and it looked apt.

[Invité trouby]

10 hours ago, Houb said:

@Dante82

yes some resluts in you link (liberto forum) are really amazing.

 

@Trouby

Ok that's enough, I will play also!

 

So this how looks your awesome settings in 4K on Youtube :

 

This how looks CRT-Geom MOD Deluxe in 4K

 

Yours is so awesome guy!! it makes me dream so much!! Please teach me how you managed to get a so nice result??

 

PS: for sure none of them looks like a real CRT screen,... but your one is so close!! when i watched your videos i really thought my screen turned into a real CRT screen!! 

 

And also your setting is so amazing that we have more scanlines than pixels :

I remember, many real arcade monitors were doing such scanlines in the middle of the pixels (my grandmother did had a monitor like that!). So close to the perfection !!

i find your grainy picture grainy and mine like real arcADES  doent have this.  your picture shows like you are playing on a emulated snes or something the itself isnt too bad if u like a grainy picture(im being serious) i dont see this defined black lines at the local arcade here. 

[Invité trouby]

man my screen looks awsome . yours looks grainy too defined.  i am trying out yours for reference

[Invité trouby]

yeah nah , yours is just too stiff and liney grainy sorry . i just cant see it

[Houb]

if you don't like the textured mask, you can just change it (there are 3 options : simulated aperture grren/purple, textured mask 1x1 and textured mask 2x2)

Also if it's too much you can change its strength (when down to 0 the full mask effect is removed)

So it's not a problem it's just clear options available in settings.

 

Examples with the crap CRT-Geom MOD Deluxe shader for MAME :

Mask 2x2 / Tex 2x2 (default setting)

 

 

Mask 1x1 / Tex 1x1

 

 

Simulated (green/purple)

 

 

Aperture Strength set to 0 (dot simulation removed => only scanlines)

 

 

And you can also set : Mask 1x1 with Tex 2x2 (interesting solution...)

 

 

So finally with our crap (like you said) at least the scanline is accurate (it matches the resolution of the game!), the textured mask is optionnal and you can chose other ones, set its strength (and even remove it if you want), the curvature works even with bezels and artworks and also it works with last MAME releases...

 

What about your amazing solution??

I will reply : the scanline is not accurate and don't match the resolution of the game at all, the full rendering is bluried, this is only plain scanline without any dot simulation, the curvature is rendered poorly and don't work with artworks and also you have to use an old obsolete MAME version to enjoy this poor result...

In french we would say : "Ca donne envie!!"

 

BTW at the beginning I had nothing against your post and your settings, and at the opposite I was quite interrested

I really don't know why you insulted me and my work like that and with so much hate: I think you really have a problem...

I'm disgusted to have to post things like that and I really hope you will change your attitude and stop to denigrade the work of others without any reason...

Modifié le 26 mai 2020 par Houb

[ducon2016]

7 hours ago, trouby said:

yeah nah , yours is just too stiff and liney grainy sorry . i just cant see it

 

Just add more bloom effect.

 

[fire10]

1 hour ago, ducon2016 said:

 

Just add more bloom effect.

 

Looks beautiful gents

[Invité trouby]

thats fine. its not personal.  i can agree to disagree ,thats all   btw i did give u credit the picture looks better than before with the new mame versions.  i just feel mine are still better no need to get titchy. i havnt. 

[Invité trouby]

subtle scan lines , look closer

[Laggy]

On 5/25/2020 at 2:41 PM, ducon2016 said:

And here is my second CRT screen

 

 

Ducon,

 

This is a fantastic image, as it highlights what I've been trying to recreate in MAME/Retroarch. The shadow mask is clearly visible in these images, but I can't recreate those in MAME or retroarch, at least on my 4k screen. I call out that last point, because I have a suspicion that the resolution is drowning out the shadowmask. Or it could be some blurring or blooming on the shader, though, that doesn't happen with real CRTs, from what I've seen.

 

Are you familiar with any documentation on using the shadow mask images? I'm using BGFX, and it appears that the shadow-mask image configured in mame.ini is ignored (a 48x48 pixel mask) as it ultimately uses a custom one that is 1/4 - 1/2 the size.

 

EDIT:

 

I think I discovered the issue, which appears to be in the shader set I'm using. Ultimately, it's taking a single shadow mask png and stretching it across the screen in a mostly transparent smear that is hard to see except when the screen is dark. Now, to see if I can trace down where it's going wrong in the chain.

 

EDIT2:

 

I was able to get the shadow mask applied correctly, so it shows up within the scanlines...but, it's still a far cry from sharp, like your image. Perhaps it's getting blurred, or bloomed out of existence. Will keep testing.

 

EDIT3:

 

Discovered the Aperture Strength setting, and it is definitely conflicting with some other settings...switching to pure crt-geom, and it looks cleaner, but lacks some of the modifications of the chain I'm currently using. Still, getting a better handle on this.

Modifié le 27 juin 2020 par Laggy

[Invité trouby]

Laggy

all the new mame versions are too strict. thats the problem.  its too complicated, can be done, but mine is much easier and you will get a better picture anyway. this tight pixel perfect thing they claim, isnt so perfect and for me and other people it looks like crap anyway. but of course its up to you. i have actually found on my monitor mine looks better in comparison . tried their way for experimentation and i wanted it to be good , but its not that great actualy. reminds me of the consoles shaders that over compensate. way to liney and grainy for my taste.

Modifié le 2 août 2020 par trouby

[Cool Coyote]

On 22/05/2020 at 8:30 PM, trouby said:

Forget all this new mame shit it still looks like shit

i have the best mame crt look because i use the older mame version that is just before the change of diabolical controlled crt rubbish 'fixes' and heres the proof  

 

perfect video and much better than the others , excellent crt look'

[shiryu55]

 

 

they are configurations in mame, or in retroarch. ??, I currently use the hlsl, but I am trying to put the bgfx effects with crt deluxe, and I would like to know how to remove the scan lines and textures or reduce them a lot ..., but keep the curvature effects and other lighting effects .

[Cool Coyote]

On 24/12/2020 at 11:16 PM, shiryu55 said:

 

 

they are configurations in mame, or in retroarch. ??, I currently use the hlsl, but I am trying to put the bgfx effects with crt deluxe, and I would like to know how to remove the scan lines and textures or reduce them a lot ..., but keep the curvature effects and other lighting effects .

in mame, i cant speak for retroarch, i dont use it.

[Tathan]

Chaque fois que je cherche quelques infos sur des shaders MAME, je retombe sur ce post. Le "trouduc" de ducon est légendaire. ^^

[Cool Coyote]

On 29/09/2021 at 9:02 AM, Tathan said:

Whenever I look for some info on MAME shaders, I come across this post. The ducon "asshole" is legendary. ^^

😅😆 too true 

[Invité Onkel]

42 minutes ago, Cool Coyote said:

😅😆 too true